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Barbara Ann Crumm
Objet d'Art
Barbara Crumm began
her life as a fetish model at the ripe young age of 19. Since then she
has posed for many of the scene’s most famous photographers and, in the
process, has become a photographer herself. Her "Model Muse Artist
Identity" show was a study of the relationship between models, muses,
artists and their subjects. ErosZine had a few words with her about
those topics—and more.
ErosZine: You've modeled for a lot of the "scene" fetish photographers. Give us a list.
Barbara Ann Crumm: Richard Kern, Cynthia Patterson (FRESH MEDIA/Barely
Legal/Hustler), Steve Diet Goedde, Dave Naz, Carlos Batts, Octavio
"WinkyTiki" Arizala, Perry Gallagher and George Pitts. He’s not really
a fetish scene photographer, but he takes nudie pix of women. He just
had a nice opening at the gallery where I used to work, Sometimes
Madness Is Wisdom. [http://www.sometimesmadnessiswisdom.com] I highly
recommend checking it out! I'm naked in it, under glass! Woo! And
almost Eric Kroll, but he kind of freaked me out. Shit, I was 19. Then
I met him again at 26 and he didn't freak me out as much. Not sure if I
will ever model for him though. Although I was interviewed briefly on
his website I think via Dave Naz/Carlos Batts/Steve Diet Goedde.
EZ: Who was your first?
BAC: Richard Kern.
EZ: What was that like?
BAC: I was kind of nervous because I really respect Kern. Then I saw
his Velcro tennis shoes and I realized he was a nerd like me. So
everything was cool. My ex-boyfriend was there during the shoot. That
was a little weird. But Kern made him move shit around, that was cool.
[Laughter.] Errand boy. Well, that's the least he can do because I’m
sure he got off watching or something.
EZ: You were dating Dave Naz, which I'm sure meant a lot of collaboration. What was that like?
BAC: Well, the way I met Dave was by inquiring about modeling. We hit
it off and our first shoots were very romantic and sentimental to me.
Dave is very particular about his lighting and settings, and it shows.
That's what I was initially attracted to about his work. It looks a bit
like Kern, but not Kern. Dave has his own style. Working with Dave
was/is great. Living together brought a whole other element into
working together. I would get pissy if he didn't snap quick enough.
There is a certain element where you sort of become psychic with one
another, you know what the other person is going to do, etc. And there
is also an understanding that even if you shoot and get tired, we knew
when to give or take, if that makes sense. Dave taught me a lot about
photography and turned me on to different photographers who have become
my favorites, such as Diane Arbus, Nan Goldin, etc. We bonded because
we both liked Larry Clark and had similar interests in art, music and
life.
Being with Dave helped me decide to do self-portraiture as an
exploration of my identity. Towards the end of our relationship I had
my first art opening, the “Muse/Model/Artist/Identity” show. It's very
ironic that it was toward the end of us being together as a couple and
then the beginning of my role as an artist. Not to be rude toward
anyone in particular, but I think I had to break free from the
"Girlfriend of Dave Naz" role. It's not his fault or mine. It was just
a transformative experience altogether. The last thing I expected
before I had my opening was that I would be in the midst of a difficult
break-up. I am very happy to know Dave. He is one of the hardest
working artists I know. He taught me the business end of art as well.
He is the utmost professional, and I think that's an extremely
important lesson as an artist to know how to balance professionalism
and creativity.
EZ: How do the photographers you've posed for differ? Or how are the same?
BAC: Kern did weird shit, for example: the photo of me in "Model
Release" where I am grinning. Just a totally off the wall shot. He's
pretty funny to shoot with. I was relaxed and laughing both times I
think. George Pitts put me under glass! He is really good at working
around you; it's very organic working with him. He's very pro-female
and sweet! Dave is pretty particular about what he wants. He’s very
kind and patient to have put up with my shit for three years. ha!
Octavio is like a court jester, who is balls-on with his lighting. He’s
a total mad genius and lots of fun to work with. His new book is coming
out on Goliath soon!
Carlos, he's another mad genius. Carlos knows what he wants. And just
goes for it. I have had an amazing time working with him and his
beautiful wife Lillian <http://www.fattyd.com> We all kind of
have this psychic photo connection going. Lillian and I are actually
going to set up a website soon for our art/collaborations as well.
Cynthia Patterson knows what she wants as well. She is one tough
cookie. I really like her a lot and hope to do more arty shoots with
her in the near future. The “Muse” show included her first "arty" shoot
with me. The others were with Kern, Barely Legal, Taboo. She also
helped me furnish my new apartment. I am forever indebted! Steve Diet
is like shooting with a Victorian gentleman. He is so sweet, yet
particular, about what he wants. He has had much patience with me
during our shoots and he will randomly crack you up with his dry humor.
Love it! He's a sweetheart. God, I have known him for like six years.
Whoa, I feel old.
EZ: What makes art or photography erotic? Is it more in the purpose of the shoot? Or is it in the eye of the beholder?
BAC: I think art is "erotic" when it's un-pretentious. I think the
bruises and the imperfections on human beings make them beautiful, and
I find that erotic. I find the blemishes to be real and that’s a turn
on for me. I don't find a Barbie Doll with fake tits to be hot.
However, if she was wearing no make up and just woke up and had a big
black eye, that would be hot. It really isn't about a dildo or an
orgasm, it's about instigating that for the viewer. I think everyone
has their own little things that turn them on. My idiosyncrasies and
turn-ons are not what turns the next person on. I think when shoots are
too posed, it becomes a turn off. So, ultimately it's in the eye of the
beholder.
EZ: And how does "erotic" differ from porn? Or does it?
BAC: I think erotic art is like a Shannon Tweed movie, and porn, well,
that's Jeanna Fine. Erotic is like looking at everything through a soft
lens. Then porn is like cutting to the chase. I prefer porn because
it's in your face and that can even be literally! I hate both terms,
really. Especially "erotic art." It's just fucking art. I hate those
terms the same way I hate "fetish photographer." It's just silly. It's
like calling yourself a "contemporary artist" or an "adult contemporary
singer." But alas, we need those labels for the idiots.
EZ: Your show, "Model Muse Artist Identity" was a study of what it's
like to be all those things, which you are. Tell us what it is about
your life that led up to that exhibit.
BAC: Well, I always knew I was an artist, ever since I was a little
girl. But being a muse is something I learned I was. I think it was
after I saw Xanadu for the first time that I was able to give it a
label. Thanks Olivia Newton John! I mean even though whoever made
Xanadu was obviously coked out of their skull, it all made sense. We
all need a muse. Everyone has one whether they realize it or not.
Basically before that exhibit ever came into play, my life was
traveling, dancing, writing, playing in bands, doing dumb drugs. My
ex-boyfriend/bandmate passed away of a drug overdose and that put a lot
of things in perspective. A few years ago, right after my ex died, I
kind of slowed down a bit. Then I met Dave and I started to settle down
and focus and remain in one place for more than a year, which I
consider an achievement of sorts.
I met the owner of SMIW, Dominique Griffin, at one of the first parties
Dave and I had as a couple. I ended up working for her when the gallery
was in Santa Ana, then eventually up here in Silverlake. Dominique had
mentioned the idea she had of this show with me as the subject. I
thought that was both intriguing, amusing and frightening. I kind of
felt like it was a bit of a memorial to my self. Like I was dead.
Although, I know that was not the intent of the theme. But being the
subject—"object"?—matter puts you in a bit of a quandary. Or at least
for me, being a 27-year-old woman. I am still trying to define myself
and I am constantly on the quest for who I am. Although I feel like I
have a clearer definition than I did before the event, it was still
quite a personal battle for me to get over "myself," if that makes
sense. I think it was hard for a lot of people closely involved with
this event to completely understand what I went through. Then again,
maybe they get it. And I’m still just asking myself these things.
I can be overly analytical at times. Aren't we all? But I think that’s
what keeps you going as an artist. I don't really see myself as a model
per se. I never fit that model mold. I know I inspire, but I usually
can't inspire myself until something retarded happens. And my identity,
well, that's always up in the air. Today I am feeling very Holly
Golightly. I’m really grateful for that experience and that event. It
really helped me define and make changes for myself in my life. I think
everyone needs something like that. It was bittersweet. And that's
life; you have to take the bitter with the sweet. Right?
EZ: Tell me about being objectified. Do you ever feel that way when you're photographed?
BAC: Objectified. Well, I’m not going to go on a feministic diatribe.
But generally you can only feel objectified if you allow yourself to
feel that way, or put yourself in a situation that will make you feel
as such. And I never have. When I started dancing, I felt that it was a
way to gain control of my identity and have this magical power over
people watching me. It's a form a witchcraft, really. I have always
felt in control of what I do, and the choices I’ve made. Some have been
good, some bad. The only time I feel objectified is when I allow myself
to feel that way. And it's usually when I am PMSing. [Laughter.]
EZ: How about when the pix show up in Barely Legal?
BAC: That's a good question. Well, I have to say, looking back on it,
I’m actually happy I documented a time in my life when my tits were
perky. But it would be, like, weird if my Dad ended up seeing it.
Ewwwww. He knows what I do/did, and I think he makes an effort to make
sure he won't see the really dirty stuff. [Laughter.] Although, I have
to say the things I did for Hustler publications were kind of tame in
comparison to what others have done, I think.
EZ: What are your feelings about being jerk-off fodder for dirty old men who like young women?
BAC: My take on it is: Hey, if someone gets off looking at me. Fine. I
made someone happy. It's not much different than being a Hollywood
actress and having people look at you all the time, and it's like you
know guys are jacking to Charlize Theron or Cameron Diaz. It's like
being the ultimate porn star without sucking cock. Really. Maybe one
day I will make that much money. There's no shame in my game or
objectification in it either.
EZ: You were a Suicide Girl reject? What the hell? Tell us about that.
BAC: Well, I dunno. Maybe I didn't have enough tattoos. I think that
look is a dime a dozen now. I am kind of happy to look a little normal
these days. Because I know when someone takes the time to get to know
the real me, they will see what a neurotic freak I am. I don't need to
be an Suicide Girl model to prove that! I have to be honest though, it
was kind of a bummer. Dave Naz took the shots of me for them, then they
turned them down. I guess they were too good. At least that's what I
will tell myself. I guess their karma is coming back to them now,
though; evidently they’ve been getting some bum press. There are other
places that have been around, like Burning Angel and now GodsGirls I
guess is the new Suicide Girls, but come, on man, it's like let's do
something new. At least Burning Angel contains hot fucking, damn it!
EZ: Tell us about your art. Were you a photographer all along, or is it as a result of being photographed?
BAC: I was actually more of a writer, painter and singer/rocker person.
Thinking back, though, I have always had a camera or a Polaroid. I
remember reading this thing about how Andy Warhol carried around a
camera with him everywhere and at 15 I started doing that and
documenting myself. I wish I had those photos now. That would be a trip
to see my transformation. My grandmother once gave me this old camera
and I took weird photos with that. I think this new venture in
self-portraiture is definitely a result of being photographed so much
that I decided I wanted to define myself and find myself through my own
lens. I still paint to relax and I write every day. I think my next
project will be a combo book/music/painting/photos released as one
thing. Who knows? I’m also working on starting my own art gallery in
2006.
EZ: What are your inspirations?
BAC: I take inspiration from the flaws in life, the funny stuff and the
ironies. And just day-to-day stuff. I like the concept of
transformation, shadows, light, yin and yang. I sort of think David
Bowie really inspires me the most—him and Madonna. They are the two
ultimate mavericks and chameleons out there. Madonna is one of my muses
for sure. She is like the best-selling muse of all time. As far as
artists who inspire me: Yoko Ono, Claude Cahun (who Dominique Griffin
from SMIW turned me on to before my opening. She and her husband are
doing a documentary on her.), Nan Goldin, Diane Arbus, Cindy Sherman.
Francesca Woodman is someone who I recently found and not a lot of
people know about her; her work is amazing. Beatrice Moore is my
favorite modern painter. I’m going to see her opening in December in
Phoenix. I listen to a lot of music when I work and that inspires me:
Lou Reed/Velvet Underground, John Frusciante, Roxy Music, Brian Eno,
Bowie, Iggy (Raw Power, baby!), Goldfrapp, Gry, Bjork,
electronica/jazz/noise/trip-hop. Does this set the mood for me and my
inspirado? I am also inspired by fucked up celebrity stories and weird
news. Kate Moss doing coke makes me want to write a song. Poor thing,
they should leave her alone! I am also very inspired by America's Next
Top Model and Dog the Bounty Hunter. I'm the Queen of non-sequitor! And
WIND!
EZ: What was your childhood like? Or How did you end up doing this?
BAC: I went to Catholic School and rebelled against my crazy family at
18. I hit the road and ended up stripping by 19 in New Orleans. I found
stripping could fund my journey across America to wherever I wanted. I
was able to live on the road for four or five years.
EZ: Are you kinky in your private life?
BAC: That's for me to know and the next lucky humanoid to find out.
Hopefully a girl.(Hmmm, ladies?) I’m not totally Ms. BDSM. I like to be
spanked though. Woo!
EZ: What's next for you?
BAC: B Movie Star! [Laughter.] Keep on the look out for TrashQueen,
directed by Carlos Batts. Hopefully putting out a photo book, an album,
more events/shows with the related muse theme all over the US and
beyond, my own space/gallery. I want to buy land in Joshua Tree, too.
Travel? I want to be big in Japan, ya know. You can always keep up with
me in my monthly blog: http://ladybarbaraann.blogspot.com. Sugardaddies
or mamas? I need a Gertrude Stein, damn it!
[Written Nov. 2005]
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