Editrix Abby  

Barbara Ann Crumm

Objet d'Art

Barbara Crumm began her life as a fetish model at the ripe young age of 19. Since then she has posed for many of the scene’s most famous photographers and, in the process, has become a photographer herself. Her "Model Muse Artist Identity" show was a study of the relationship between models, muses, artists and their subjects. ErosZine had a few words with her about those topics—and more.

ErosZine: You've modeled for a lot of the "scene" fetish photographers. Give us a list.

Barbara Ann Crumm: Richard Kern, Cynthia Patterson (FRESH MEDIA/Barely Legal/Hustler), Steve Diet Goedde, Dave Naz, Carlos Batts, Octavio "WinkyTiki" Arizala, Perry Gallagher and George Pitts. He’s not really a fetish scene photographer, but he takes nudie pix of women. He just had a nice opening at the gallery where I used to work, Sometimes Madness Is Wisdom. [http://www.sometimesmadnessiswisdom.com] I highly recommend checking it out! I'm naked in it, under glass! Woo! And almost Eric Kroll, but he kind of freaked me out. Shit, I was 19. Then I met him again at 26 and he didn't freak me out as much. Not sure if I will ever model for him though. Although I was interviewed briefly on his website I think via Dave Naz/Carlos Batts/Steve Diet  Goedde.

EZ: Who was your first?

BAC: Richard Kern.

EZ: What was that like?

BAC: I was kind of nervous because I really respect Kern. Then I saw his Velcro tennis shoes and I realized he was a nerd like me. So everything was cool. My ex-boyfriend was there during the shoot. That was a little weird. But Kern made him move shit around, that was cool. [Laughter.] Errand boy. Well, that's the least he can do because I’m sure he got off watching or something.

EZ: You were dating Dave Naz, which I'm sure meant a lot of collaboration. What was that like?

BAC: Well, the way I met Dave was by inquiring about modeling. We hit it off and our first shoots were very romantic and sentimental to me. Dave is very particular about his lighting and settings, and it shows. That's what I was initially attracted to about his work. It looks a bit like Kern, but not Kern. Dave has his own style. Working with Dave was/is great. Living together brought a whole other element into working together. I would get pissy if he didn't snap quick enough. There is a certain element where you sort of become psychic with one another, you know what the other person is going to do, etc. And there is also an understanding that even if you shoot and get tired, we knew when to give or take, if that makes sense. Dave taught me a lot about photography and turned me on to different photographers who have become my favorites, such as Diane Arbus, Nan Goldin, etc. We bonded because we both liked Larry Clark and had similar interests in art, music and life.

Being with Dave helped me decide to do self-portraiture as an exploration of my identity. Towards the end of our relationship I had my first art opening, the “Muse/Model/Artist/Identity” show. It's very ironic that it was toward the end of us being together as a couple and then the beginning of my role as an artist. Not to be rude toward anyone in particular, but I think I had to break free from the "Girlfriend of Dave Naz" role. It's not his fault or mine. It was just a transformative experience altogether. The last thing I expected before I had my opening was that I would be in the midst of a difficult break-up. I am very happy to know Dave. He is one of the hardest working artists I know. He taught me the business end of art as well. He is the utmost professional, and I think that's an extremely important lesson as an artist to know how to balance professionalism and creativity.

EZ: How do the photographers you've posed for differ? Or how are the same?

BAC: Kern did weird shit, for example: the photo of me in "Model Release" where I am grinning. Just a totally off the wall shot. He's pretty funny to shoot with. I was relaxed and laughing both times I think. George Pitts put me under glass! He is really good at working around you; it's very organic working with him. He's very pro-female and sweet! Dave is pretty particular about what he wants. He’s very kind and patient to have put up with my shit for three years. ha! Octavio is like a court jester, who is balls-on with his lighting. He’s a total mad genius and lots of fun to work with. His new book is coming out on Goliath soon!

Carlos, he's another mad genius. Carlos knows what he wants. And just goes for it. I have had an amazing time working with him and his beautiful wife Lillian <http://www.fattyd.com> We all kind of have this psychic photo connection going. Lillian and I are actually going to set up a website soon for our art/collaborations as well. Cynthia Patterson knows what she wants as well. She is one tough cookie. I really like her a lot and hope to do more arty shoots with her in the near future. The “Muse” show included her first "arty" shoot with me. The others were with Kern, Barely Legal, Taboo. She also helped me furnish my new apartment. I am forever indebted! Steve Diet is like shooting with a Victorian gentleman. He is so sweet, yet particular, about what he wants. He has had much patience with me during our shoots and he will randomly crack you up with his dry humor. Love it! He's a sweetheart. God, I have known him for like six years. Whoa, I feel old.

EZ: What makes art or photography erotic? Is it more in the purpose of the shoot? Or is it in the eye of the beholder?

BAC: I think art is "erotic" when it's un-pretentious. I think the bruises and the imperfections on human beings make them beautiful, and I find that erotic. I find the blemishes to be real and that’s a turn on for me. I don't find a Barbie Doll with fake tits to be hot. However, if she was wearing no make up and just woke up and had a big black eye, that would be hot. It really isn't about a dildo or an orgasm, it's about instigating that for the viewer. I think everyone has their own little things that turn them on. My idiosyncrasies and turn-ons are not what turns the next person on. I think when shoots are too posed, it becomes a turn off. So, ultimately it's in the eye of the beholder.

EZ: And how does "erotic" differ from porn? Or does it?

BAC: I think erotic art is like a Shannon Tweed movie, and porn, well, that's Jeanna Fine. Erotic is like looking at everything through a soft lens. Then porn is like cutting to the chase. I prefer porn because it's in your face and that can even be literally! I hate both terms, really. Especially "erotic art." It's just fucking art. I hate those terms the same way I hate "fetish photographer." It's just silly. It's like calling yourself a "contemporary artist" or an "adult contemporary singer." But alas, we need those labels for the idiots.

EZ: Your show, "Model Muse Artist Identity" was a study of what it's like to be all those things, which you are. Tell us what it is about your life that led up to that exhibit.

BAC: Well, I always knew I was an artist, ever since I was a little girl. But being a muse is something I learned I was. I think it was after I saw Xanadu for the first time that I was able to give it a label. Thanks Olivia Newton John! I mean even though whoever made Xanadu was obviously coked out of their skull, it all made sense. We all need a muse. Everyone has one whether they realize it or not. Basically before that exhibit ever came into play, my life was traveling, dancing, writing, playing in bands, doing dumb drugs. My ex-boyfriend/bandmate passed away of a drug overdose and that put a lot of things in perspective. A few years ago, right after my ex died, I kind of slowed down a bit. Then I met Dave and I started to settle down and focus and remain in one place for more than a year, which I consider an achievement of sorts.

I met the owner of SMIW, Dominique Griffin, at one of the first parties Dave and I had as a couple. I ended up working for her when the gallery was in Santa Ana, then eventually up here in Silverlake. Dominique had mentioned the idea she had of this show with me as the subject. I thought that was both intriguing, amusing and frightening. I kind of felt like it was a bit of a memorial to my self. Like I was dead. Although, I know that was not the intent of the theme. But being the subject—"object"?—matter puts you in a bit of a quandary. Or at least for me, being a 27-year-old woman. I am still trying to define myself and I am constantly on the quest for who I am. Although I feel like I have a clearer definition than I did before the event, it was still quite a personal battle for me to get over "myself," if that makes sense. I think it was hard for a lot of people closely involved with this event to completely understand what I went through. Then again, maybe they get it. And I’m still just asking myself these things.

I can be overly analytical at times. Aren't we all? But I think that’s what keeps you going as an artist. I don't really see myself as a model per se. I never fit that model mold. I know I inspire, but I usually can't inspire myself until something retarded happens. And my identity, well, that's always up in the air. Today I am feeling very Holly Golightly. I’m really grateful for that experience and that event. It really helped me define and make changes for myself in my life. I think everyone needs something like that. It was bittersweet. And that's life; you have to take the bitter with the sweet. Right?

EZ: Tell me about being objectified. Do you ever feel that way when you're photographed?

BAC: Objectified. Well, I’m not going to go on a feministic diatribe. But generally you can only feel objectified if you allow yourself to feel that way, or put yourself in a situation that will make you feel as such. And I never have. When I started dancing, I felt that it was a way to gain control of my identity and have this magical power over people watching me. It's a form a witchcraft, really. I have always felt in control of what I do, and the choices I’ve made. Some have been good, some bad. The only time I feel objectified is when I allow myself to feel that way. And it's usually when I am PMSing. [Laughter.]

EZ: How about when the pix show up in Barely Legal?

BAC: That's a good question. Well, I have to say, looking back on it, I’m actually happy I documented a time in my life when my tits were perky. But it would be, like, weird if my Dad ended up seeing it. Ewwwww. He knows what I do/did, and I think he makes an effort to make sure he won't see the really dirty stuff. [Laughter.] Although, I have to say the things I did for Hustler publications were kind of tame in comparison to what others have done, I think.

EZ: What are your feelings about being jerk-off fodder for dirty old men who like young women?

BAC: My take on it is: Hey, if someone gets off looking at me. Fine. I made someone happy. It's not much different than being a Hollywood actress and having people look at you all the time, and it's like you know guys are jacking to Charlize Theron or Cameron Diaz. It's like being the ultimate porn star without sucking cock. Really. Maybe one day I will make that much money. There's no shame in my game or objectification in it either.

EZ: You were a Suicide Girl reject? What the hell? Tell us about that.

BAC: Well, I dunno. Maybe I didn't have enough tattoos. I think that look is a dime a dozen now. I am kind of happy to look a little normal these days. Because I know when someone takes the time to get to know the real me, they will see what a neurotic freak I am. I don't need to be an Suicide Girl model to prove that! I have to be honest though, it was kind of a bummer. Dave Naz took the shots of me for them, then they turned them down. I guess they were too good. At least that's what I will tell myself. I guess their karma is coming back to them now, though; evidently they’ve been getting some bum press. There are other places that have been around, like Burning Angel and now GodsGirls I guess is the new Suicide Girls, but come, on man, it's like let's do something new. At least Burning Angel contains hot fucking, damn it!

EZ: Tell us about your art. Were you a photographer all along, or is it as a result of being photographed?

BAC: I was actually more of a writer, painter and singer/rocker person. Thinking back, though, I have always had a camera or a Polaroid. I remember reading this thing about how Andy Warhol carried around a camera with him everywhere and at 15 I started doing that and documenting myself. I wish I had those photos now. That would be a trip to see my transformation. My grandmother once gave me this old camera and I took weird photos with that. I think this new venture in self-portraiture is definitely a result of being photographed so much that I decided I wanted to define myself and find myself through my own lens. I still paint to relax and I write every day. I think my next project will be a combo book/music/painting/photos released as one thing. Who knows? I’m also working on starting my own art gallery in 2006.

EZ: What are your inspirations?

BAC: I take inspiration from the flaws in life, the funny stuff and the ironies. And just day-to-day stuff. I like the concept of transformation, shadows, light, yin and yang. I sort of think David Bowie really inspires me the most—him and Madonna. They are the two ultimate mavericks and chameleons out there. Madonna is one of my muses for sure. She is like the best-selling muse of all time. As far as artists who inspire me: Yoko Ono, Claude Cahun (who Dominique Griffin from SMIW turned me on to before my opening. She and her husband are doing a documentary on her.), Nan Goldin, Diane Arbus, Cindy Sherman. Francesca Woodman is someone who I recently found and not a lot of people know about her; her work is amazing. Beatrice Moore is my favorite modern painter. I’m going to see her opening in December in Phoenix. I listen to a lot of music when I work and that inspires me: Lou Reed/Velvet Underground, John Frusciante, Roxy Music, Brian Eno, Bowie, Iggy (Raw Power, baby!), Goldfrapp, Gry, Bjork, electronica/jazz/noise/trip-hop. Does this set the mood for me and my inspirado? I am also inspired by fucked up celebrity stories and weird news. Kate Moss doing coke makes me want to write a song. Poor thing, they should leave her alone! I am also very inspired by America's Next Top Model and Dog the Bounty Hunter. I'm the Queen of non-sequitor! And WIND!

EZ: What was your childhood like? Or How did you end up doing this?

BAC: I went to Catholic School and rebelled against my crazy family at 18. I hit the road and ended up stripping by 19 in New Orleans. I found stripping could fund my journey across America to wherever I wanted. I was able to live on the road for four or five years.

EZ: Are you kinky in your private life?

BAC: That's for me to know and the next lucky humanoid to find out. Hopefully a girl.(Hmmm, ladies?) I’m not totally Ms. BDSM. I like to be spanked though. Woo!

EZ: What's next for you?

BAC: B Movie Star! [Laughter.] Keep on the look out for TrashQueen, directed by Carlos Batts. Hopefully putting out a photo book, an album, more events/shows with the related muse theme all over the US and beyond, my own space/gallery. I want to buy land in Joshua Tree, too. Travel? I want to be big in Japan, ya know. You can always keep up with me in my monthly blog: http://ladybarbaraann.blogspot.com. Sugardaddies or mamas? I need a Gertrude Stein, damn it!

[Written Nov. 2005]